Digital Video that looks more like Film

[Choo Choo Andee]

http://www.andymilonakis.com/dv.gif


Now you can shoot stuff that will look more like Film because it shoots 24 frames per second, pretty groovy....here's the article.


LAS VEGAS, NV (April, 7, 2002) - Panasonic Broadcast & Television Systems Company has introduced the AG-DVX100 24P DV Cinema™ Camera, the world's first mini-DV camcorder to capture cinema-style, 24-frame progressive-scanned images.

Representing a revolutionary leap in digital video technology, the palm-size AG-DVX100 is equipped with three, newly-developed 1/3" 410,000-pixel progressive- scan CCDs that allow the camcorder to capture high-sensitivity images in both standard 60-field-per-second NTSC (interlace scan) and also at 24-frames-per-second progressive scan. Twenty-four frames per second is the frame rate that many primetime programs, television commercials and independent movies originate in. The popularity of 24P camcorders - such as Panasonic's AJ-HDC27 Varicam™ variable-frame HD Cinema™ camera - is due to the fact that they produce a close approximation to the "look" of film, and offer a significant savings in production costs.

"With its 24-frame capture capabilities, the AG-DVX100 democratizes visual storytelling by substantially reducing the cost of entry for digital filmmakers" said Stuart English, Vice President, Marketing, Panasonic Broadcast. "The AG-DVX100 is a forward-looking tool that integrates with existing IEEE-1394 based non-linear editing platforms and will allow the creative community, whether video journalists, digital cinematographers or event videographers, to express their visions at the highest creative level."

The ultra-compact 4.4-pound AG-DVX100 delivers outstanding digital picture quality with low smear and flare, and offers a high sensitivity with a minimum illumination of 3 lux at F11. The camcorder's IEEE-1394 digital interface makes it easy to download video to PC-based nonlinear editing systems. For quick and easy operation, the camcorder is equipped with a newly-developed lens with manual zoom, manual focus and manual iris and a focal length with a wide field of view (f3.25 to 325mm). Its professional audio capabilities including two-channel, built-in XLR inputs and a phantom power supply (48V). It also offers large manual audio controls.

The digital camcorder has two neutral-density filters; a large, easy-to-view electronic viewfinder; and a flip-out 3.5" LCD panel that makes monitoring shooting a breeze. The AG-DVX100 will be available in September at a suggested list price of approximately $3,495.

[Lan'sMoustache]

That's pretty neat. Makes for a smoother transition to film. Eliminates a step. Panasonic is good. Hi-Ho.

[Nick Mougis]

this is cool, but i don't like panasonic cameras. i've used their dvc-pro cams, and their mini dv cams. the dvc-pros are nice but huge, the dv cams were wack.

i'll wait till canon or sony does this up.

or, until i can afford a camera :flip:

[macoule30]

Gaaaaaaah! Must have. Must buy. Screw Mougis. Or listen to his wise council. Brain hurt.

[John Bolger]

The new Cannon XL1 is one of the best DV cams out there. Soderberg just used the XL1S for the film Full Frontal and it's the only camera I work with. Not that others aren’t better, or could be more advantageous in different areas, just found it's the most complete camera out there. Only drawbacks are that it has is 30 Frames per second(still looks like film), and on the older models (2001 and back) even on manual focus it sometimes has lens "puffs". But since its DV and not film, burn as much tape as you like and do another take. Article on the old XL1 that might help:

http://www.falseclocks.com/falseclocks/timeline/toys_r_us/pages/canon.html

Regularly shoot short comedy films on this and it offers the most flexibility of any other camera. Besides, it's one of the camera's the porno industry uses so who am I to discount the magic of adult films. Have a short film currently running on ATOMFILMS if you want to see the quality:

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/according_darth

Rock on to all, and happy filmmaking!

Bolger

[Choo Choo Andee]

The new Cannon XL1 is one of the best DV cams out there. Soderberg just used the XL1S for the film Full Frontal and it's the only camera I work with. Not that others aren’t better, or could be more advantageous in different areas, just found it's the most complete camera out there. Only drawbacks are that it has is 30 Frames per second(still looks like film), and on the older models (2001 and back) even on manual focus it sometimes has lens "puffs". But since its DV and not film, burn as much tape as you like and do another take. Article on the old XL1 that might help:

Yeah, I've heard the same from tons of people about the XL1S but I'd have to disagree with the "still looks like film" statement, unless you meant it looks like film after it's transfered to film. I haven't seen any DV camera that produces film like quality unless it's transfered to film....and for the average person, it's way too expensive to do. Have you seen the Chuck & Buck dvd? The difference is friggen amazing when you see the movie (DV transfered to film) and some of the cut scenes (just plain ol DV)....I haven't used the Panasonic 24 frames per second joint yet, but I'm curious to see how much it actually looks like film (before transfering).

[macoule30]

I was all set to purchase an XL1S. And I read all the press and ads about Soderberg using them for Full Frontal. But my roommate (a gaffer) told me to hold off because the next generation was coming out according to American Cinematographer. This could be what he was talking about.

24 fps video has been around forever, though. At least since I was in school. I don't know why it took so long to come to dv.

[John Bolger]

Choo Choo Andee,

You got it! The 30 frames per second still transfers back to film and looks just great. Haven't seen the Panasonic yet but I can't tell you this, in that price range and it being a 3 chip unit, it's still going to look like video. The type of thing your looking for is called the Sony 24P and it is the closest thing you can get to actual 35mm film. It runs for between
$130,000-$230,00 or more brand new. Rental is also expensive.

The Panasonic you would want to be at this level and run you about the same is this:

http://www.lemac.com.au/rental/cat/fpdf/20-23.pdf

The Sony 24P is the best camera in this group cause you can let the tape run, it's lightweight in comparison, and postproduction is plug and play to look at dailies. Once again those little savvy pricks in marketing and advertising at Panasonic are screwing with perception. They call it "cinema-style" or the "look" of film only cause its 24 frames per second. Not because it actually LOOKS like film. If it did, Lucas could cut his production costs and use it instead. It is still beneath Cannon in this range of DV cameras in my opinion but try it out for yourself to make sure.

Oh and macoule30, I think this new XL1S is the thing he's talking about. It has none of the problems of the old XLS(air puffs) and added features. Peace out!

Bolger

[TerryJ]

"The type of thing your looking for is called the Sony 24P and it is the closest thing you can get to actual 35mm film."

The thing about this particular Panasonic miniDV camcorder is that it is, in fact, 24P. 24 frames per second and progressive scan. That is why it is getting so much attention. For those who don't know...24 frames a second is what real film is displayed at, and will give the video a "film look" (because of the way the brain perceives images displayed in that manner.)

One big difference, of course, between this Panasonic miniDV 24P camcorder and Sony's mucho expensive 24P (HD) camera, is the resolution. (Not to mention the compression of the MiniDV format, and the lenses, and a whole bunch of other stuff.) MiniDV at 24P is still pretty low resolution, compared to real 16 or 35mm film...or HighDefinition 24P video (like the super high-end Sonys.)

However, it's still a fact that (all other things being equal) this Panasonic 24P camera will make video look more like film than a Canon XL1s (or Sony VX-2000...or similar camera) would at this price...mainly because it's doin' its 24P thingy. That's why the Panasonic is getting everyone all worked up.

I'd be curious, though, if and when Canon and Sony get out their models. They'd better get something to market with 24P MiniDV, because there's a lot of interest.

-Terry

[Choo Choo Andee]

However, it's still a fact that this Panasonic 24P camera will make video look more like film than a Canon XL1s (or Sony VX-2000...or similar camera) would at this price. That's why the Panasonic is getting everyone all worked up.

Yeah, that's what piqued my interest. I'm not looking to spend 100K, but if they have a 24fps mini dv camera that's only slightly over the price of a VX2000, I'm interested. However, I haven't used one so I can't make any judgements. I think if it's true it's a great option for people that never plan to transfer to film and have micro budgets. I'd probably wait for a Sony though, I love Sony.

[TerryJ]

Yeah...me too. I own a Sony VX-2000, and have shot several shorts with it. I don't necessarily plan on transferring things to film. However, a camera that approximated a "film look" without dealing with film (and something that has an option to be transferred to film without dealing with 3:2 pulldown and all that) would be cool to have.

From reading a bit about this Panasonic MiniDV 24P camera (on http://www.2-pop.com mostly), this camera can output 24P or it can do a 3:2 pulldown and conversion to 60fps interlaced video within the camera. So the firewire would output regular NTSC video, but with a "film look". And, apparently, the 3:2 pulldown stuff is something that can be 'reversed' in case you ever wanted to transfer the 24P video to film (because of their specific 3:2 pulldown technique.)

Sounds cool to me.

-Terry

[John Bolger]

Terry J/CCA,

None of us know if looks better than the Cannon XL1S cause we've never seen a sample of it. Or have you? With that price range, and those capabilities I'd love to see something shot with it, or a sample. There are none I can find which makes me very suspect. If the "look" and "feel" are so close to film you'd think two things: They would have a highly visible sample cause they would be proud to display it, or they would charge more for bringing this technology to light. Don't get me wrong, I hope it is does "look" like film, but being 6 fps less than a cannon for a pseudo-film feel wouldn't make me trade in all the qualities the XL1S currently has over the Panasonic. Hope for DV filmmakers everywhere it does deliver cause it would be nice cost effective tool to have...peace out!

Bolger

[Choo Choo Andee]

I never said it looked better than the XL1S, I have no idea. I do know that I'd give up a ton of features to have DV that looked even a little bit more like film. Where are you looking for samples?

[TerryJ]

I'm not sure if the Panasonic will actually 'look better' (and I think I was careful not to actually state that) as opposed to giving the video the illusion of being film. Obviously one good test of general image quality would be a head-to-head between the Canon XL1s and the Panasonic in regular 60fps interlaced mode. Of course, afterwards, then comparisons could be made between the XL1s and the Panasonic's 24P mode, to see if it was 'better' (even though it's comparing a 24P apple to a 60i apple.)

There aren't any formal press reviews of this new Panasonic...nor have I seen any footage. The official release date is October 10th. Apparently the camera was demoed at the LA DV show recently, and the sample had just arrived at that show from Japan. They didn't have a real "demo reel" yet to show it off. The casual reviewers seemed to like it (from what I gathered from the 2-pop.com forums.)

Here is one 'review':
http://2-pop.5thavehosting.com/cgi-bin/discussion/forums/cameras.cgi?read=24834

Feature-wise, the Panasonic does seem on-par with other cameras.

So, like I said, assuming all things are relatively equal, this seems like a really cool camera, and one that I'd be interested in getting. (And yeah, It'd replace my VX-2000...)

Now, if Canon made a 24P XL1 or if Sony made a 24P VX-2000...that would be nice. I suspect they should get on that right away if they knew what was good for them.

-Terry

[John Bolger]

Yeah me neither, but would like too...asked everyone I know in film(Directors, principle photographers from Chicago, LA, and NYC), Panasonic's Website, did google searches for films shot with it, and even called Panasonic sales rep two weeks ago to find anything to look at. His response: "ummmmmm...no, but I can send you a brochure". Oh and no worries, just stating that none of us know and we'd like to. Let's all make it a point to get a sample here as soon as someone can get a hold of one...

Bolger

[Choo Choo Andee]

A sample where? I hope you don't mean for a sample online because that would be kind of pointless. If I get a sample, I'll mail out a tape.

[John Bolger]

Thanks. Did see that article a couple days ago. The key line in that review for me was:

"Did it look like film? No. But it's a lot closer to film than shooting 60i. And because 24p image capture is a huge component of the film look, with the proper lighting, filtration, and gamma set-up, this camera will likely come close (not to mention it facilitates transfer to film, if one wishes to do so)."

I'd still like to get my hands on it and give it a test drive to see what it could do. Until then, for my shooting style, Cannon gives me all I ask for that level camera.

[John Bolger]

CCA,

Nope, meant VHS, or DVD hard copy...thanks for offering, that would be great! Kind of looking for a demo reel from Panasonic if possible. E-mail me and I'll send you my address. My e-mail is jbolger00@hotmail.com. Thanks again that is very kick ass of you!

Bolger

[Choo Choo Andee]

Ok, I saved your email addy, I'll ask for your address if I get a demo.


Andy

[John Bolger]

Dunka, you rock!

Bolger

[Choo Choo Andee]

This camera is now on sale at B&H for $3500......I want to blow my tax return check on it but I'm still a little skeptical about buying the first handheld 24p minidv.....Maybe I should wait......



The AG-DVX100 is the *worlds first handheld DV 24p camcorder. Representing a revolutionary leap in digital video technology, the palm-size AG-DVX100 is equipped with three, newly developed 1/3" 410,000-pixel progressive-scan CCD's that allow the camcorder to capture high-quality images in both standard 30fps (frames-per-second) NTSC (interlace scan) and 24fps progressive scan. Twenty-four frames per second is the frame rate that many primetime programs, television commercials and independent movies originate in. The AG-DVX100 utilizes a standard mini-DV cassette.

*As of September 2002

A Word About Progressive Video and 24p

Standard NTSC video, as we all know it, has been defined as alternating scanned lines, viewed at a 30 frames-per-second (fps) rate with each frame consisting of two fields. Each field is captured within 1/60th of a second of each other. When viewed in playback, video offers the smooth simulated motion that we have all become so used to seeing on our home TV's every night. This method of displaying a video image is known as Interlaced Scanning.

Progressive scanning, on the other hand, offers us another method of displaying a high quality image. In progressive scanning each individual line of a frame is scanned sequentially, one right after the other to complete a full frame. The camera captures the complete image at a single moment in time, very much in the same way as a film camera. One advantage of the AG-DVX100 is its Cine-like Gamma feature. The gamma is the range of bright to dark areas that can be correctly exposed within a scene. Standard video works best when footage is acquired and played back in a high ambient light. Therefore, image brightness has always been much more important than contrast ratio. Film, when used in cinematic presentations, has a very wide dynamic range providing great detail in both the brightest and darkest areas of the image. The Cine-like Gamma feature of the AG-DVX100 emulates this wider exposure range characteristic and provides additional protection against "white clipping" which is a common DV camera field acquisition problem. The Cine-like Gamma feature in conjunction with a 24fps rate offers a very economical film-like image.

Do I need DV 24p?

If you are looking for a "cinematic" look for an independent film production, film school training or video footage to be inter-cut with existing film then DV 24p is the most economical way to achieve your goal. The AG-DVX100 can also be applied as a "B Roll" camera on set, complementing the primary HD video camera or 35mm film camera. It is also a very economical way to shoot multiple camera coverage in 24p.

Key Features


• Choice of Recording Modes
The AG-DVX100 offers the freedom to record images in one of three modes.
24p mode: 24fps Progressive for images with a film-like look and motion. Two 24p capture methods are offered:
2:3 pulldown-converted for a 24p captured image and 60i recording
2:3:3:2 pulldown-converted for a 24p Advance mode captured image and 60i recording (offers a smoother playback)
30p mode: 30fps Progressive
60i mode: 60fps Interlaced for standard images.
Any one of the recording modes can be played back on a standard DV VTR and displayed on a standard monitor.

• Leica Dicomar Lens
The advanced lens built into the AG-DVX100 incorporates thirteen individual elements, which are arranged in nine groups and work together to produce breathtaking images. Four lens surfaces on three aspherical lenses combine to render an ultra-precise image with minimal chromatic aberration. Flaring is minimized by a special multi-coating that is applied to the critical parts of six of the lens elements. This allows for a uniform, high picture quality under even difficult shooting conditions.
• Imager
By using three separate super-dense 1/3" IT (Interline Transfere) CCD's for the red, green and blue colors that compose an image, this system greatly improves color reproduction and resolution. Delicate tones are reproduced faithfully. Images enjoy greater depth and presence. Overall, the picture is rich, vivid, and remarkably true-to-life. The high quality of the CCD imagers greatly reduce noise in the video signal for an improved signal-to-noise ratio.
• Balanced Audio Inputs
Features dual XLR audio inputs for connecting professional microphones. The input level is selectable between Mic or Line positions. A +48V DC power (Phantom Power) can be supplied to either or both inputs via a side mounted switch. Input 1 audio can be recorded on either CH1,or CH1 and CH2 audio tracks (selected by switch).
• Gain, Iris, Shutter Speed, ND Filter

*Gain: Increases gain up to 18dB. The selector has three positions
L (low) is fixed at 0dB
M (medium) can be set to 0, +3, +6, +9 or +12dB
H (high) can be set to 0, +3, +6, +9, +12dB or +18dB
Iris: Allows smooth, gradual manual or auto iris adjustment. The iris dial allows adjustment even when in Auto mode. Either backlight compensation or spotlight compensation can be added to the auto iris adjustment.
Shutter Speed: Maximum shutter speed is 1/2000 sec. Incorporates Synchro Scan.
Synchro Scan allows flicker-free shooting of computer monitors. Computer monitors have different scan rates, which would normally appear as flicker. Synchro Scan enables electronic shutter speeds to be variably set to match the computer monitors frequency in increments from 1/60.3 to 1/250.0 of a second in 60i mode. When shooting in 30p mode Synchro Scan can be set in increments from 1/30.1 to 1/250.0 of a second. When shooting in 24p or 24p Advanced mode Synchro Scan can be adjusted in increments from 1/24.1 to 1/250.0 of a second.
ND Filter: Two ND (Neutral Density) filters (1/8 ND, 1/64 ND) are built-in and easily accessible
*Gain can only be adjusted when shooting in 60i mode

• Time Code / User Bits
A SMPTE time code reader/generator is built-in. The time code generator records VITC on the sub-code area of the tape. DF/NDF (Drop Frame/Non Drop Frame) and Free Run/Record Run modes can be selected with preset or regen. User Bits (UB) are also provided, letting you record your choice of date, time, TC value, frame rate or user data.
• Color Bars
A SMPTE color bar generator is built-in to allow for easy set-up of the viewfinder and LCD monitor during acquisition, as well as set-up of the monitor during post-production.
• Optical Image Stabilizer
The OIS (Optial Image Stabilizer) compensates for the slight hand shaking that occurs when shooting with a small, lightweight camcorder. A gyrosensor detects any slight shaking of the camera and sends a signal to a linear motor, which adjusts the lens elements to compensate.
• Interval / Stop Motion Recording
The AG-DVX100 allows the user to record images in a time lapse or One-Shot mode.
Time Lapse mode can be set from 0.5 to 2 seconds, at intervals from 30 seconds to 10 minutes. Time Lapse is perfect for recording a projects progress or the growth of a plant.
One-Shot mode can be used for stop motion animation. One-Shot records for a set number of seconds each time the Start/Stop button is pressed.
• Zoom / Wide Angle
The built-in Leica Dicomar zoom lens was designed to cover the wide-angle capabilities that professionals require. Allowing for an extremely wide-angle of 4.5mm, the Leica lens virtually eliminates the need for a wide-angle adapter. The 10:1 optical zoom capabilities of the lens can be manually set with the zoom ring on the lens or via one of two zoom "rockers" located on the camera. One zoom rocker and Rec Start/Stop switch is located in a recessed area of the cameras top handle, and one is located above the cassette door for a balanced feel when shooting. Zoom speed can be set to any of three levels or off.
• Viewfinder / LCD
A .44", high-resolution color viewfinder is built-in and offers the ability to tilt a full 100°. The large diameter of the viewfinder allows the operator to move the camera away from his/her eye and still see a large, clear image.
The 3.5", color LCD monitor offers sharp, vivid detail and greatly simplifies menu adjustments. The LCD can be rotated a full 270° to facilitate shooting at wide variety of angles, including self-recording.
• Viewfinder Display
The LCD monitor can display the cameras menu system for set-up, as well as useful information during acquisition. A few of the available options that the operator can choose to display include:
Counter Display (time code, UB, frame rate)
AWB/ABB (auto white/black balance)
Record Time Mode (SP or LP)
Shutter Speed
Audio Level Meter
Warning Information
Zoom Position
Iris
Gain
Date and Time (mmm dd yyyy hh:mm:ss)
Battery Condition
Remaining Tape

• Zebra Pattern
A 2-pattern zebra displays an overexposure warning on the viewfinder and LCD monitor. Any two of five available levels can be selected
80%
85%
90%
95%
100%

• Tallies
Two tally lamps are built-in. One is located above the lens to indicate to the talent that tape is rolling, and one is located at the rear of the camcorder to alert the crew that tape is rolling.
• Scene Files
Six preset files are provided for quick camera set-up to achieve different "looks":
F1: Standard settings
F2 FLUO: Indoor shooting under florescent lights
F3 SPARK: Highlights subjects at receptions, dinners and other gatherings
F4 B-STR: Enhanced gradation in dark portions of sunset shots
F5 24P: 24p mode + Cine-Like gamma
F6 ADVANC: Advanced 24p mode + Cine-Like gamma

• User1 / User2
Two user buttons are provided, each of which can be assigned any one of nine functions. The assigned function can then be accessed at the touch of one button.
Assignable Functions:
Color Bars: Display/hide bars
Spotlight: Auto iris spotlight correction On/Off
Backlight: Auto iris backlight correction On/Off
Blackfade: Fade out to black (audio follow video)
Whitefade: Fade out to white (audio follow video)
Modecheck: Display settings
ATW: ATW On/Off
ATWLOCK: Lock ATW On
GAIN 18dB: Raise gain to 18dB

• Progressive Shooting
Three modes are available for progressive shooting:
30p mode: Images are shot in the progressive mode at 30fps. The 30fps images are converted into 60fps interlaced signals, and the resulting video signals are output or recorded. 30p offers a method for shift-free, high-quality still pictures
24p mode: Images are shot in the progressive mode at 24fps. The 24fps images are converted into 60-field interlaced signals for output. Cinema-like images can be obtained in this mode.
24p advance mode: Images are shot in the progressive mode at 24fps. The 24fps images are converted into 60-field interlaced signals for output. 24p advance mode results in less image degradation than 24p mode, due to digital compresssion during reverse conversion from 60i to 24p
The following points are important when shooting in any of the progressive modes:

The color bars cannot be displayed.
The gain cannot be controlled. The gain value is controlled using a fixed value.
The auto focus cannot be controlled.
When the progressive mode has been selected, the sync signals of the images are temporarily disturbed. Furthermore, no images are output for approximately 3 seconds.
A shutter speed setting of 1/50 (OFF) or 1/60 is recommended.
Since the images are recorded in 5-frame increments when shooting on 24p mode or 24p advance mode, the timing at which recording starts may be delayed slightly.
When shooting in the progressive mode using the ATW feature, it will not be possible to adjust the black balance even by pressing the AWB button.

[spacedani]

So, do Sony or Canon have a comparable camera out yet?

This one looks great, but I trust Sony more.

Has anyone noticed any drawbacks to their Panasonic camcorders, of any model?

[Choo Choo Andee]

I don't think Sony has one yet but I think I want to wait also. Not just for Sony to come out with one but because I don't like the idea of buying the first one, especially since it's over $3000.

[Choo Choo Andee]

More on this camera.......



DV Score: 4 1/2 out of 5 diamonds

Pros: High-quality pictures and very clean audio. Good lens with decent wide-angle view. Highly tweakable configuration and image rendering. True progressive 24p and 30p capture. Focus and zoom readouts. Synchro-scan. Control of external recorders.

Cons: Zoom ring too sensitive for slow zooms and smooth eases. No gain-up in progressive modes. High chroma noise in high-gain shooting. Subtle saturation patterning.

Bottom Line The Panasonic AG-DVX100 gives other cameras in its class a run for their money even before you consider that it offers true 24p. This groundbreaking camera opens new vistas for production like nothing else since the Sony DCR-VX1000 and the Canon XL1.

http://img.cmpnet.com/dv//magazine/2003/0203/DV0302rvwsDVX100Fig02.jpg


Panasonic: AG-DVX100
Audio: An Audible Sigh of Relief
A few months ago ("DV Camera Audio," Nov. '02 DV), I wrote about the disheartening sound current cameras have, and how economics dictated this wasn't likely to change. Maybe I was wrong. Panasonic's AG-DVX100 has reasonably designed, flexible input circuits and the best analog-to-digital converter I've heard in an affordable camera. The camera isn't perfect, but I hope it signals a trend toward better miniDV sound.

Flexibility is a key here. Most of today's cameras produce usable sound, but only with high-output mics or low-level line inputs. The DVX100's two XLR inputs (with switchable phantom) performed equally well at any mic level you'd find at a DV shoot, and at both consumer and professional line levels. In fact, I was able to push the input to +14 dBu without significant distortion. This is the widest usable input range of any camera DV magazine has measured.

It's also got the widest frequency response, including a smooth high end with no audible aliasing. Aliasing distortion adds nonmusical whistles to high frequencies. Modern studio equipment uses oversampling, an expensive technique, to avoid this problem. Until now, I haven't seen oversampling in any DV equipment. I can't guarantee Panasonic included it either - like most camera manufacturers, they don't publish meaningful audio specs - but the result sure sounds like it's in use. This is the only reasonably priced camera I'd recommend for music.

The camera's signal-to-noise ratio (a measure of hiss and other electronic junk) is about average for modern cameras of this class, although as noted, it extends over a wider range of input levels. The DVX100's high-gain mic setting can accommodate a -60 dBu input - more sensitive than other cameras, and necessary only with some dynamic and ribbon mics - but performance in that mode wasn't impressive. If you need to record that kind of mic, get an external preamp.

I tested the DVX100 with the same setup as the November '02 article: analog input from a calibrated signal generator, FireWire output through a high-quality converter to an audio analyzer. I used 48 kHz (16-bit) mode with automatic volume control turned off. Frequency response was remarkably smooth: 25 Hz to 18 kHz ± 2 dB, with a couple of insignificant, narrow dips at 130 Hz and 280 Hz. Distortion (THD+N) was 0.14 percent for line-level inputs, rising to 0.18 percent for a -50 dBu mic. With a +14 dBu input - well into the headroom of any professional mixer - distortion was only 0.3 percent. Signal-to-noise ratio, relative to a 1 kHz signal at -12 dBFS, was -60 dB for line and -58 dB for mic inputs. This translates to a 72 dB dynamic range, acceptable for broadcast and some theatrical purposes.

Full Review (http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?LookupId=/xml/feature/2003/wilt0203)

[Nick Morrison]

Hey all, I spend a lot of time in an editing facility in midtown, for work, and the digitizer there (we'll call him "Rob", heck - his name IS Rob!) just bought this PANASONIC camera.

I've seen the footage, and have to say: it looks amazing.

It looks like film. ALMOST. But much more like film than anything else I've seen.

But as others have said, Panasonic has got this edge/advantage for a while. Canon and Sony will be piqued, and will come out with their own 24fps versions too.

I think those are the cameras to get.

If anyone can wait 6 months to a years, those are the ones to get.

If you are in a rush, I suppose drop 3 grand plus on this, but I am inclined to see what this encourages. Not to get this.

[John Bolger]

I'm getting the AG DVX100 in two weeks. Did an ass load of research on the camera, and I found some great footage that was shot on the DVX100. NOTE: Select the last one called SV V-24p. This was converted to "DV Film" using a $90 program so enjoy:

http://new.dvinfo.net/panasonic/media/index.php

If you want solid "film like" video footage, or want to shoot a feature with low/no budget, then convert to film, this is it. Good lag montion, and depth of field. With nothing on the horizon from Canon and Sony, it's obvious they just got caught with their pants around the old ankles and captian silly stick waving in the breeze.

BTW: I was also mr. skeptial (look at comments I made to Choo Choo Andee..."come up'ins" are a bitch), but after doing test shots with it I'm inclined to say this is the best camera out there for the money.

[mvoelpel]

I have a lot of professional experience working in digital and film media, as well as teaching it.

Present DV formats are never going to really "look like film." If you are on a quest for viewers to feel like your DV project is a film project, BY FAR the most important thing is how you light it, expose it, cover it (choose your shots), direct it, and edit it. If you understand filmmaking and approach your video project as a filmmaker and do those things as you would in a film project, a VHS project will FEEL more like a film project. Trust me on that.

Also, while DV won't ever "look like film" it can definitely look beautiful, engaging, evocative, and amazing. It's just different.

The purpose of 24P DV is to accomodate a transfer to film. If you're not transferring to film, don't bother with it. If your project will be seen only (or even primarily on video, i.e. on TV screens and monitors, or even video projection) there is almost no reason to shoot 24P.

On the other hand, if you have a distributor who is committed to getting a theatrical release for your project, or you have a lot of confidence that you are going to eventually get one (bear in mind that only a handful of DV films, say less than 5, get theatrical release each year), or if you have lot's of money and want to have a chance to get your project into film festivals that only screen film prints (Cannes for instance), shoot DV and and pay the many thousands of dollars it takes to transfer it to film. Most film festivals do project video though and even Cannes probably will eventually...

99% of TV's play ONLY 30 frames per second. Thus if you playback on those TV's you will be playing back 30 fps. If you shoot 24p (24 fps), it will be converted to 30 fps before playing back on those (NTSC) TV's. Yes it will look different, because it will have those 24 frames converted/stretched into 30, a conversion that is often called "pulldown."

That 24 to 30 fps conversion or stretching (pulldown) is considered by many, including myself, to be an unpleasant artifact that should be avoided. As such many, including myself, shoot 30 fps film when the primary finished product will be on TV (i.e. commercials or rock videos). There is a sizable contingent of folks who think that this conversion (pulldown) artifact looks more like film. And indeed it does look more like film that has that particular conversion artifact. That contingent gets smaller each year as people realize that video is a different medium with different strengths and weaknesses and it isn't going to and doesn't need to "look like film," so why not just acknowledge that video is 30 fps and go with the flow on that, instead of clinging to the notion that 24 fps is better because that is the film rate.

Finally, the Sony (PD150) vs. Canon (XL1 or GL1) debate is sort of a religious one, like Mac vs. PC, but I did a whole bunch of research into which one to buy and I bought the Sony PD 150 after discovering the following:

My two friends who are professional videographers (they make a living shooting video day in and day out) basically said the Sony is the way to go and "don't go near the Canon." I also discovered that of the top 10 DV features to get theatrical release, only one of them was shot with the Canon, the other 9 were shot with the Sony. The Sony PD 150 get's a sharper image and better color reproduction than the Canon products. Any professional video engineer will tell you that.

If Soderbergh were not a Canon fan, it would have almost no highly visible fans, though that's probably an overstatement.

The reason given by most technical people who like the Canon, is that it has a softer (more film-like) image. Yes the image is softer. Yes the softness of the image is slightly more akin to the softness of film. BUT HERE'S THE KEY TO THAT. You can soften a DV image in post quite easily with a subtle blur. BUT YOU CANNOT SHARPEN A SOFTER IMAGE. (Yes I know about software sharpening filters. They don't really work. They add noise. Forget they exist.) The fact that you can soften the Sony Image with a lens filter or in post, but that you cannot sharpen the Canon image at all, is another reason that 95% of working professionals go with the Sony PD 150. Many amateurs go with the Canon, for instance the Canon is more popular among film students. And they should buy the Canon if that's the way they want to go. And if they prefer that soft look and don't want to worry about how to achieve it with the Sony, go with the Canon.

The Sony products shoot superior video.

Also note that Sony makes professional and consumer video products while Canon makes only consumer products. And Canon, no question, does make excellent consumer products in general.

If I offended anyone with these statements I apologize. It certainly was not my intent. There simply is a lot of misinformation out there about 24p and what it's uses are.

Also, if you need a videographer or filmmaker with equipment to assist you with your project feel free to contact me.

Have fun shooting video!

mark

[Ute Giddeon]

Originally posted by mvoelpel
The purpose of 24P DV is to accomodate a transfer to film. If you're not transferring to film, don't bother with it. If your project will be seen only (or even primarily on video, i.e. on TV screens and monitors, or even video projection) there is almost no reason to shoot 24P.

Isn't another purpose of 24P DV to acheive film-like motion blur? That is why I would use a 24P DV camera.

[clubfootedmijet]

Yes. It is. As for mvoelpel's comment regarding the Sony PD-150, I am going to have to agree with everything she has stated. I prefer use of the PD-150 as opposed to the cannon for all the reason's stated. I shot several shorts and documentary's using the PD-150 and I had a great experience with it.

[John Bolger]

Hola Mark,

You have really great insights and I agree with all your points about the filmmaker providing the ultimate professional look. If it comes down to purchasing a Sony PD 150, Canon GL1, or Panasonic AG DVX100, my money is on the progressive 24p Advanced mode Panasonic offers in this price range. Here's a SBS assesment of the DVX100 vs. Sony PD 150:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.asp?newsID=63

24P FRAME RATE allows independent filmmakers who can't afford a $125,000 HD 24p digital camera to shoot in 24 progressive fields/second mode (NOTE: It 's nowhere near the same visual quality of a HD 24p). By shooting in 24P, you'll avoid artifacts (often seen when shooting in interlaced fields/like the Sony PD 150), and create motion blur. This will give the footage a look similar to 35mm film. Some of the issues you eluded to that DVFilm Maker takes care of:

Can DVFilm Maker convert back to NTSC for broadcast or digital projection?

Yes, it will convert 24P to NTSC with a 3:2 pulldown for film-motion presentation on video.

Will it undo a 3:2 pulldown if I shoot standard 24P mode?

No. Do not recommend shooting 24P standard mode. 24P Advanced mode will be better.

Hope that helps, peace!

[Choo Choo Andee]

I'm glad that the 24p camera is really nice....now I just need to save up a wad of cash.

[John Bolger]

What up Choo Choo?!?!?!?

You'll save up in no time and then it's "if you can dream it, you can do it" man. Didn't have money either, so it took saving money from one month after that Aug 14th post till now. 9 months later my new DVX was born. Have to thank you Andee, cause your the one who first told me about the DVX100 and got me hooked on researching it. Thanks

If I remember right, your tax return was going to pick it up. Hope you didn't get "Iraqed" by Bushy. Don't worry, his new tax cut with eventually make it down to help the economy in 2013. Rock on!

[Choo Choo Andee]

No problem....My tax check went to a bunch of bullshit.... I think I'm going to buy a new computer before a new camera because most people watch my stuff on the internet so until I'm ready to start doing bigger projects there's really no use getting a new one.....but my computer is 850mghtz and it's just squeaking by.....I want a new G4 but I don't have $18,000.

[John Bolger]

Just shooting with it last night. 24p Advanced mode with CinenaGamma on looks good either porfessionaly lit or unlit(can handle dark spots with just a change in settings). This baby is great with rack focusing that looks and feels breath taking. The fact that I got noticable "depth of field" from a camera in this price range made me stoked. Got my boom pole, shotgun mic, and tripod all at B&H and think they do it up right. They truly kick the ass of a donkey. Oh, and Andee, you should be able to get a new G4 with the new super fast dual processor for right around $3,100. Peace out!

[John Bolger]

A new G4 will have more than you think in it now. Getting a new G4 for my production company that will have DVD creation and burning capibilities. Ohhhhhh, I need a rag, I just messed myself.